Auto-RX oil treatment. Don’t do it.

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edit: I’ve posted this exact thread to the official Auto-RX forums only to have the thread deleted and the username banned. If that is not an example of their terrible customer service, I don’t know what is.

I am writing to anyone that might be on the fence about purchasing a treatment or two of Auto-RX. In few words, Don’t Do it. Allow me to go into the background of my issue.

I have a 2003 wrx that was burning around .75 quarts of oil every thousand miles or so. Thinking that it might be a stuck ring land I came across Auto-RX that claimed it could free up stuck ring lands, increase cylinder pressures, and reduce oil blow by. “GREAT!” I thought to myself, this is exactly what I needed. So after speaking with Rich Eklund regarding what oil to use in my treatment cycle I settled on Valvoline Conventional 5w30 for both the treatment oil, and the rinse oil.

Roughly 1000-1500 miles into the treatment an oil leak developed on the drivers side of my motor, at first I thought it might have been the valve cover gasket. So I looked on the Auto-RX website and saw that there was a possibility that Auto-RX could make your seals more pliable. “Seems plausible” I thought to myself, the FAQ said that it could take up to 3000 miles for the seals to re-seal and after that everything should be golden. So I waited, drained out the Auto-RX treatment oil and refilled with clean Valvoline 5w30 and a fresh Purelator One filter. 1,000 miles passed, no change in the leak. 2,000 miles passed, still no change in fact it was getting worse. 3,000 miles passed, and still the oil leak was getting a little worse. After 3,500 miles I drained the oil and refilled with Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 and a fresh Purelator One filter.

During this time I began speaking to local shops regarding what the cause could be, as Auto-RX states that it cannot under any circumstances cause harm to seals. The overwhelming conscensus was that a cam seal had torn. So I contacted Auto-RX again to get their opinion on what could be going on. And once again Rich Ukland answered my email. Wherein he said that it could be a stuck PCV valve, maybe some dirt had dislodged and gotteen stuck in the seal causing the leak, or that it could also be a torn seal. He offered that he could look into getting a complimentary bottle of Auto-RX sent to me if a new PCV wouldn’t solve the problem.

After a few days I decided that I would I would take Rich up on his offer of a complimentary bottle of Auto-RX. I sent an email in on July 22nd, wherein I asked if he could look into getting another bottle of Auto-RX sent to me. Here is where the otherwise good customer service experience went completely down hill. Rich was out on vacation and now Frank Miller (the owner of the company) was answering the emails. Here is his response to the email I wrote:

“Hello Rich is on vacation. Why would we send you a free bottle of Auto-Rx ?”

Brief to say the least. But I oblidged to tell him why a free bottle might be sent to me with this reply:

“Well first and foremost Rich said that he’d look into it. To give you the back story: after my first treatment of Auto-RX I developed an oil leak from a cam seal, I had hoped that it would have gone away but it still persists 5000 miles after the treatment oil had been drained.”

Now keep in mind that Auto-RX uses a gmail account for their customer service email. So Frank would have full access to the string of emails that had been sent. Here is the response I received from Frank, along with the rest of the email conversation. His emails are Bolded, mine are italicized:

“WHAT IS THE OIL YOUR USING ? “

“I ran Valvoline conventional through it for the treatment oil and the oil change after. It currently has Pennzoil Ultra in it.”

“This is from our website “ Drain the Ultra go back to Valvoline Conventinal the leak will stop.” He copy/pasted a portion of the website that went over why you should not use Pennzoil Ultra or other PAO based oils in conjunction with an Auto-RX treatment. Keep in mind that at this point my motor had not had Auto-RX in it for 5000 miles.

“I had run Valvoline convention through it for after the treatment 3000 miles and the leak showed no signs of stopping. I do plan on changing back to a conventional oil as the price of the pennzoil ultra is prohibitive given that the car is leaking more than 1 quart every 1000 miles currently. To clarify, Pennzoil Ultra and Auto-RX have *NOT* been in the motor at the same time, only Valvoline Conventional was used with Auto-RX and in the oil change following the Auto-RX treatment.”

“**** is is the complex additive package in the full synthetic oil that caused the leak to come back. If your saying it leaked after you completed rinse mode with Valvoline Conventinal oil ? than you have a torn or ripped seal. Which will have to be replaced.” He clearly had not understood that the oil leak began during the original Auto-RX treatment and had not stopped since.

“That is exactly what I am saying, the leak developed at the end of the treatment cycle and persisted through the rinse and into this current oil change. I have an appointment on monday to have the seal replaced which will be roughly $400. Needless to say I am very much less than thrilled to be having to spend $400 to replace a seal with less than 10k miles on it after using your product. I would appreciate some assistance in repairing this damage that your product caused.”

“Auto-Rx can’t cause a sel leak and it can’t repair a torn seal Based on your e-mails think you should step to the plate and recognise your own inability to except a mechanical problem. If you added more Auto-Rx after the application was complete you need to tell me perhaps i can save you a repair bill also if you used a full synthetic right after the Auto-rx Application you need to tell me by right after i mean with in 500 miles after Your Auto-rx application was finished. “ I was willing to recount all of the steps I had taken with the original Auto-RX treatment. But it was at this point when Frank began getting hostile with me simply because I requested some sort of assistance with the oil leak that started during the Auto-RX treatment. This response caused me to reel, was this person really a representative of the company? Why would you be treating a customer like this, especially when they’re having a rather serious issue?

“I really do not appreciate your condescending attitude and remarks regarding this matter.

I have told you, multiple times, that the oil I used with the Auto-RX treatment (when the leak started) was Valvoline Conventional, as is one of your recommended oils. The oil change immediately after that treatment cycle was ALSO Valvoline Conventional, as is the recommendation. The leak began roughly 1000 miles into the treatment cycle, and has not stopped in the 5000 miles since.

This is not my inability to “except” a mechanical problem, this is your product causing a seal to degrade in such a manner as to cause this oil leak. I have not added any further Auto-RX to any of the following oil changes as I had read the seal leak application documentation that you replied with. If you believe that another treatment of Auto-RX will remedy the situation, by all means send me another bottle and I will put it in with my next oil change. However, given the amount of oil that is leaking from the seal, I do not believe this is simply a pliable seal. I have attached several photographs that show how oily the undercarriage of the car is now due to this oil leak and the size of the oil stain on my driveway from this oil leak. Previous to this my vehicle had never dripped a single drop of oil in it’s lifetime, the undercarriage was only every covered with road dust and dirt. It is now covered in a film of oil.” I sent him these four photos which show how much oil is leaking from the seal: http://i.imgur.com/m2UAo.jpg http://i.imgur.com/H0kfC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/bU9Hw.jpg http://i.imgur.com/PbOJC.jpg

“If i am to accept you did the application absoulutely correct than your leak it is because it is ripped or torn.We don’t fix this problem. Another bottle of Auto-Rx will not fix a ripped or torn seal. In 10 years we have never “degraded a seal” our chemistry does not swell seals. This string has riun it’s course.”

This is far and away the absolute worst customer service experience I have ever had. This is how they stand by their product. I will never purchase another product from Auto-RX or Frank Miller ever again. I am having the seals replaced at my expense and will be telling everyone I can to avoid Auto-RX like the plague. Buy some other competing product, do not give this man your hard earned money. You’ll just get thrown to the side like I did.

With further research I found this thread: http://mercurymarauder.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=56544 If what is said there is true, then this is very damning evidence against Auto-RX

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Last edited by Amandyke; 07-25-2011 at 01:32 PM. 

This is the 2nd part of the thread, moral of the story, use MMO and you will not have this problem, arx bad mouths MMO, and they treat there customers very badly.

Ivar, please have your mechanic look the seal over and give his opinion on why it failed. Get back with us and let us know what he says.

I’ve been skeptical of ARX from the beginning - the whole thing just seemed too shady..they only sell the product through their “web site” which has the set up of a mid-late ‘90s GeoCities page....i.e. something a 10 yr old could make…

Can’t find it on ebay, amazon, or any other online shopping site…

What’s strange is the whole concept seemed very similar to that of MMO when I read through the site, and the directions....in fact, they’ve mirrored my typical MMO usage (in the crankcase) almost to the “T” lol.  I’ve used MMO in 3 vehicles now with reasonable success....quieted down the engines anyways; no “failures” of any type.  Though none of the valve covers were ever pulled or anything like that, but after 3 back to back 3000 mile MMO treatments with PYB 5W-30 (typically....one time I did use Castrol GTX 5W-30...) I had no problems.

The biggest “problem” I noticed was on my latest vehicle, I noticed extreme oil burn off while the MMO was in the crankcase....and it kind of striked me odd, because even after a 1/2 quart top off, the burn off still occured.....it wasn’t til I performed my next scheduled oil change at 3k, and changed out the oil for pure PYB 5W-30 that the “consumption” (burn off - there was no leaks...) stopped.

But I chalked it up as typical of an engine additive that’s also made for the gas tank Obviously some of the oil is going to “pass” the rings, that must have been what was getting “consumed” - but now I’m on a fill of PYB 5W-30, no MMO in the crankcase, and no consumption at all, and this is an 88 Aries, with a low ~41k on the clock yes, original mileage.

PYB?

Orangedotfever - 02 August 2011 02:06 PM

Ivar, please have your mechanic look the seal over and give his opinion on why it failed. Get back with us and let us know what he says.

Guys, this is not my car, this is someone that I am helping out, I did e-mail him and he told me that the mechanic said the seal was not ripped or torn, it looked fine, the mechanic said that maybe auto-rx might have swelled the seal, this is a rebuilt motor that now has 10,000 miles on it, it was rebuilt by a shop that specializes in rebuilding Subaru’s, they are a top notch shop.

What I cannot understand is that if a rebuilt motor is burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles I would have thought the guys from auto-rx would have told this gentleman to bring his car back to the place that rebuilt his engine, this oil burning with less than 10,000 miles on an engine leads to believe there is a mechanical problem not something that an oil additive would fix, it seems the people at auto-rx will say anything to sell there product. I believe the leak started almost 1000 miles into the arx application, before arx it never leaked a drop of oil, if the seal was put in wrong during the rebuild I am guessing that it would start leaking within 1000 miles or so

I have read where many people have used auto-rx and then they have developed leaks afterwards, anytime anyone has a problem with arx they usually call the owner and they get the runaround, and arx did not cure his oil burning issue, it helped alittle, but it did not cure his problem.

This arx product is not cheap, a 12 ounce bottle goes for $27.97, if this stuff came in a quart, it would be almost $75.00

This product is 18 times more expensive than MMO and it seems that MMO works better, I will try and find out when his oil burning issue started and I will ask him if he ever contacted the shop that did his rebuild to ask about his oil burning issue.

Orangedotfever - 02 August 2011 05:39 PM

PYB?

Pennzoil Yellow Bottle

wow, something is definitely fishy here....why would you ARX a rebuilt motor that only has 10k miles on it?

Sounds silly to me.  Perhaps ARX did a little 180 in this application, since the seal obviously had to been new, unless the shop failed to change out the seal.....

tommygunn - 06 August 2011 08:39 PM

wow, something is definitely fishy here....why would you ARX a rebuilt motor that only has 10k miles on it?

Sounds silly to me.  Perhaps ARX did a little 180 in this application, since the seal obviously had to been new, unless the shop failed to change out the seal.....

There is something fishy, this person contacted auto-rx before buying the product, he told the arx salesperson that he had a REBUILT ENGINE with only 10,000 miles and that it was burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles since it was rebuilt. It is quite obvious that this engine might not have been rebuilt right or maybe this person did not properly break in the engine, the right thing for the arx salesperson would have been to tell the gentleman to bring his car back to the place that rebuilt his engine. If you get your engine rebuilt and it is burning a quart of oil after 3000 miles or the 1st oil change then you have a MECHANICAL PROBLEM.

This engine had Forged Pistons on it, I am pretty sure that this engine is a performance engine, this person is obviously upset with the customer service and the fact that arx did not stop his oil burning, I have read where many people have felt that they have not gotten help from arx after the sale. I also read where auto-rx was using Paid Posters to push there products, this thread was called PAID POSTERS FOR AUTO-Rx.

All of the seals that were on this engine were brand new, even the seal that failed was brand new, the car did not leak a drop of oil before auto-rx, then 1000 miles into using arx it starts leaking. If the seal had been put in wrong, then I would think that it would have started leaking within 500 to 1000 miles. Maybe the arx does things to seals to make them leak, they do have a Money Back Guarantee, but not on the Seal Application. This product is 18 times more expensive than MMO, so I would expect that this product would be as good or better than MMO, and it is not, I would expect there customer service to be as good or better than MMO, and it is not.

I always found it odd that arx attacked products like MMO and Rislone, they claimed these 2 products as well as many others had solvents in them that destroyed seals and caused leaks, but of course they did not have any tests to back up there claims. Arx claims to be safe for our engines and environmentally friendly, the insides of our engines is a toxic environment.  Maybe arx is just too mild to do any good in today’s engines.

We know that MMO was originally developed to clean carburetors and then engines, this arx product was not originally designed to be used in engines, it was 1st used in cleaning up Printing Presses that run on Hydraulic Fluid, and since printing presses internals are made out of steel that is what it was designed to clean up, steel parts, not aluminum parts, this Aluminum Theory is important becuase many of today’s cars are made out of aluminum, that means the block and cylinder heads. There is a great thread I discovered called ARX & Aluminum Engines, it gives a detailed analysis of arx’s flaws. Another 2 threads to Google is Auto-Rx & MMO, as well as 3 ARX Cleans Did Not Do Much Bummer.

I also found out that auto-rx gels up at temps below 45 degrees fahrenheit, whereas we all know that MMO has a Pour Point of -60 degrees below Zero, this basically means that if you use arx during the wintertime that it can gel up and cause oil flow problems which will lead to increased engine wear.

I have hardly ever read of anyone having a problem with using MMO, but , over 95% of the people who have used arx have not been satisfied, the product did not meet there expectations or they saw little or no results, there are more questions than answers when it comes to arx.

I feel that this MMO Forum does give us the opportunity to express ourselves freely when it comes to MMO or any other oil additive that members may have used, I do not hear the MMO Employees attacking other Oil Additives, but the arx employees are always attacking MMO, they want to create fear and doubt becuase they know that cheaper oil additives like MMO give the best bang for the buck and they really work.

This gentleman spent $400.00 to get his Seal replaced, sure seems like arx causes more problems and it really does not solve any problems, I will keep you updated on this guy’s engine and how everything is going with the new seal that was replaced.

I wouldn’t use Auto-RX just because it’s so expensive.

Do I believe that it causes damage to engines? If used as directed, probably not.

Can new seals fail? Yes.

Did this new seal fail on it’s own. Maybe.

Did Auto-RX cause it to fail prematurely? Maybe, but I really doubt it.

Have “over 95% of the people who have used arx have not been satisfied...”? Where in the world would anyone get an accurate figure about that? 
Most people who use a product never post about it one way or another.

I personally have no clue why anyone who just had a engine rebuilt would use an expensive “miracle in a bottle” rather than take it back to the engine builder. If I were the guys from Auto-RX I would have a lot of questions too. I still wouldn’t pay the money Auto-RX wants, so I wouldn’t be in this situation anyway.

Orangedotfever - 07 August 2011 01:22 PM

I wouldn’t use Auto-RX just because it’s so expensive.

Do I believe that it causes damage to engines? If used as directed, probably not.

Can new seals fail? Yes.

Did this new seal fail on it’s own. Maybe.

Did Auto-RX cause it to fail prematurely? Maybe, but I really doubt it.

Have “over 95% of the people who have used arx have not been satisfied...”? Where in the world would anyone get an accurate figure about that? 
Most people who use a product never post about it one way or another.

I personally have no clue why anyone who just had a engine rebuilt would use an expensive “miracle in a bottle” rather than take it back to the engine builder. If I were the guys from Auto-RX I would have a lot of questions too. I still wouldn’t pay the money Auto-RX wants, so I wouldn’t be in this situation anyway.

One of the problems with arx is that the Application Instructions are always changing, the Clean Phase has gone from 500 miles, then too 1000 miles, then 1500 miles, and now it is 2500 miles, and the Rinse Phase has also increased over the years. The Camshaft Seal that was taken out looked absolutely perfect, maybe the guy was driving this car very hard.

I got the 95% figure from the number of people who have used auto-rx, most of these users were posting about the product and then they stopped, there is only a small number of users who are continually using the product and posting about it, many of the former users have moved onto products like MMO, its cheaper and easier to get, you can buy MMO at just about any auto parts store. Arx is a Mail Order Product, it is processed, bottled, and shipped from Michigan, then it is shipped down to Florida and then out to the customer, so shipping does account for the bulk of the price, and since arx does not sell much product they are buying the raw materials in small quantities, they have had several price increases since 2002. I think that the price of MMO is rather cheap becuase they buy there raw materials in bulk since they sell so much product, they can pass the savings onto the consumer.

I do not think the guys from arx asked alot of questions, I think they will say just about anything to sell the product, they are a small operation with about 3 employees, they never share any details from there so called tests becuase they say that there information is PROPRIETARY, this is fine if your product really works, but when it does not work then this secretive stance from them raises questions. I am sure that some of the information about tests that MMO has done is proprietary for many reasons, that is fine since the product does work as advertised.

I am sure if this person had come to this forum with an oil burning issue on a rebuilt motor with less than 10,000 miles that the MMO people as well as the members who post here would definetly have told this guy to take his engine back to the place that rebuilt it, I do not know what kind of Warranty comes with a Rebuilt Engine, but it is insane to think that an oil additive might cure the problem, I have always thought that oil burning issues stemmed from Mechanical Problems, like wear in the rings, or in the case of a rebuild, something was not installed properly.

I also blieve that the majority of the people who buy MMO probably never visit the Internet or visit these Forums, but arx is an Internet Product, that is how people find out about it, when you have people asking questions on the net they are probably smarter and wiser than the person who just picks something off the shelf in an auto parts store, people on the Net sometimes ask tough questions and they also get information from other users of cetain oil additives.

I have not seen any locked threads on this Forum, I have never seen any that were removed, but I have heard some disgruntled arx users complain that there posts and threads have been deleted from the arx forum, that leads me to believe that they may be hiding something, its almost like, buy the product, but if you have tough questions or you are not happy then you are silenced.

I think we all should be able to read any information, good or bad about arx and other oil additives, that way we can make an informed decision about buying a product.

I learned about MMO from a guy who has been using it for 36 years, another friend told me how his Dad had been using MMO since the late 1950’s with great success, he never had any problems with the product. Before using MMO I called up my Dad’s friend who was a mechanic for United Parcel Service, he worked there for 35 years, he has been using MMO since 1955, he just told me to follow the directions and not to overdose the product. I have never read about a bad experience with MMO on the Internet, I searched real hard, and all I found were users that had positive results.

“I got the 95% figure from the number of people who have used auto-rx,”
And just how many people have used Auto-RX? Have you spoken to them all? Surveys have shown that normally, a satisfied customer will rarely post or tell people that they are happy unless asked about it. But a dissatisfied customer will tell everyone he knows. Thus, I still question your 95% statistic. 

The bottom line to me here Ivar, is that I really cannot feel sorry for anyone who spends the money to have a “performance engine”, “...rebuilt by a shop that specializes in rebuilding Subaru’s, they are a top notch shop.”, and then turns to an additive like Auto-RX to cure a problem for him so early after the rebuild. I’m not defending Auto-RX for poor customer service, but I understand them being leery about your friend and him being upset that their product didn’t fix his problem. I’m guessing that there is more to this than meets the eye.

Orangedotfever - 08 August 2011 01:20 PM

“I got the 95% figure from the number of people who have used auto-rx,”
And just how many people have used Auto-RX? Have you spoken to them all? Surveys have shown that normally, a satisfied customer will rarely post or tell people that they are happy unless asked about it. But a dissatisfied customer will tell everyone he knows. Thus, I still question your 95% statistic. 

The bottom line to me here Ivar, is that I really cannot feel sorry for anyone who spends the money to have a “performance engine”, “...rebuilt by a shop that specializes in rebuilding Subaru’s, they are a top notch shop.”, and then turns to an additive like Auto-RX to cure a problem for him so early after the rebuild. I’m not defending Auto-RX for poor customer service, but I understand them being leery about your friend and him being upset that their product didn’t fix his problem. I’m guessing that there is more to this than meets the eye.

The 95% statistic is from those people that complained about auto-rx not working, the other 5% are from people who were either happy with the product, or they were either distributors or PAID POSTERS for the product.

I just want to emphasize that since auto-rx sells very little product they will recommend there product when there is not a need to use it, in this instance auto-rx should have told this guy to bring back his vehicle to the place that rebuilt his engine.

Another point here is that auto-rx never tested there product with an independent lab, they put it out on the internet and they were protected on another forum before they were kicked off, they never listened to there dissatisfied customers when they had problems, they also did not even listen to their PAID POSTERS FOR AUTO-Rx, there employees have very little knowledge about the product they are selling, besides the owner, they have 3 employees, 2 of them who troll Internet Forums pretending to be customers when in fact they are paid employees.

They only have about 1029 customers in the United States, and the vast majority, again it comes out to about 95%, used the product once or twice and then moved onto other oil additives because they were not seeing any benefits, they have a slogan called WE ARE THE EXPERTS, they are experts in pushing there product at all costs, jumping into discussions about MMO and other oil additives and saying that these products are nothing but SOLVENTS and your engine will be ruined. Auto-Rx has not spent any money on Research and Development, all of there tests are 3rd party tests so the information cannot be verified.

This product is an OVERPRICED UNDERPERFORMER, it is basically the Synlube of Oil Additives, all of the Moderators on the Auto-Rx Forum are now using MMO, these Forum Moderators are there in name only, the only reason a few of them are there is because they can get discounted product and then sell it.