Hello. Please forgive me if I ramble here.
I have, for the past few years, ran an alternative cleaning solution in all my cars and trucks sumps. All natural (claimed) and rather expensive for all the “personal fleet” in a maintenance ongoing scenario. And I came to question if the RX of this product was justified when analyzing the results. So I have gone full circle and have gone back to MMO I was raised on with great success both on the ranch and in our personal cars back in ancient times.
I read many post all over the internet about only utilizing MMO the last XXX miles of an OCI.
Then there are many (including MMO themselves) who say use the entire OCI (outside of extended drain OCI’s).
Throw in those who say only use it during the winter months (I still do not understand ambient temps and its relation to engine operating temps rational/argument) and you can possibly understand the confusion I suffer from.

I understand viscosity very well. I understand MMO recommending no more than 20% in the sump. I understand many 5-30 weights are in reality closer to 8-38 and the 5w MMO does not dilute the oil out of a 5-30 weight spec when mixed under the recommended 20% ratio. I understand cold start wear.

I do not see any correlation to UOA’s and MMO having any negative impact on those.

I understand solvents. I understand certain solvents effects on lubrication. I understand heats effect on lubrication.

So I ask. Is the length of time and the mix ratio % one runs MMO in the sump really just a personal preference at the end of the day?

In closing, what in the world happened to BITOG? Seems it has been reduced to a kids Mustang forum.

I think ur right.

The Sarge - 19 November 2010 12:41 PM

So I ask. Is the length of time and the mix ratio % one runs MMO in the sump really just a personal preference at the end of the day?

I think it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish.  I would not use a high concentration of MMO (20-25%) for a long (over 3,000 miles) oil change interval.

SparkPlug - 19 November 2010 04:25 PM

The Sarge - 19 November 2010 12:41 PM

So I ask. Is the length of time and the mix ratio % one runs MMO in the sump really just a personal preference at the end of the day?

I think it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish.  I would not use a high concentration of MMO (20-25%) for a long (over 3,000 miles) oil change interval.

I am after a long term maintenance program. I use quality oil and filters today and more than reasonable OCI’s.
Probably anal about a clean engine.....but do like a “mantenance” dose to insure/realize maximum cleaning on top of quality lubrication.
However...there it is again...what happens at mile 3001 in your mind?

skyraider - 19 November 2010 03:21 PM

I think ur right.

Bout what? BITOG? Been quite awhile since I went there at Terry Dysons recommendation. I know he is no longer a participant there ( he told me quite awhile ago) as many others I remember from the “old days”. Place is silly now.
Oh well. Time moves on I guess.

I am after a long term maintenance program. I use quality oil and filters today and more than reasonable OCI’s.
Probably anal about a clean engine.....but do like a “maintenance” dose to insure/realize maximum cleaning on top of quality lubrication.
However...there it is again...what happens at mile 3001 in your mind?

First, welcome Sarge.

At 3k, nothing. At 5k is when I start methodically checking the dipstick, rubbing it between my fingers and taking visual notations. Utilizing proven semi-synthetic oil and top quality filters along with different volumetric additions of MMO and using UOA’s to stretch the penny as much as I can, without undermining the integrity of my engines. MMO has proven to me to be a useful tool in the care and cleanliness of an engine.

SuperDuty - 20 November 2010 02:34 AM

I am after a long term maintenance program. I use quality oil and filters today and more than reasonable OCI’s.
Probably anal about a clean engine.....but do like a “maintenance” dose to insure/realize maximum cleaning on top of quality lubrication.
However...there it is again...what happens at mile 3001 in your mind?

First, welcome Sarge.

At 3k, nothing. At 5k is when I start methodically checking the dipstick, rubbing it between my fingers and taking visual notations. Utilizing proven semi-synthetic oil and top quality filters along with different volumetric additions of MMO and using UOA’s to stretch the penny as much as I can, without undermining the integrity of my engines. MMO has proven to me to be a useful tool in the care and cleanliness of an engine.

Thank you for the welcome sir.

Please allow a comment.

Yes I did quite alot of documenting with TCW3 over at ls1.com a few years back. Actually we still log data and have over 10 million miles of data (collective) in a wide variety of cars/trucks all over the country. I am speaking to MMO in the engine oil here as we are documenting real world data of MMO (and various other products) long term and with regular usage.

I wont speak to specifics concerning TCW3 added to your fuel in this forum....however I will say, without a shadow of a doubt, utilizing a UCL/Cleaner in todays ethenol/fuel mix has multiple positive benefits. Data is definitive.

What I am soiciting here is actual user input on utilizing MMO in the engine oil on a regular long term basis. Thoughts, experiance etc.

Funny thing this internet.....my 2stroke oil (been around forever and long before myself) thread on ls1.com took off to global porportions. All I was doing was sharing/logging data....next thing I know I have people in TimBuckTwo wanting to kill me or have a parade for me.

Oh well.

a parade would be fun.  lol

Pro mechanics like Tom and Ray Magliozzi have long been advocates of running longer OCI’s than 3000 miles even with regular dino oil. Unless you are pulling the wagon in a 100 degree hay field in the midwest in August, you don’t need to change that often. 5000 miles is plenty early and modern synthetics last much longer. My problem with UOA’s in my car is that by the time I spend the money on one, I can spend the same money on an oil change with a good extended service synthetic oil. As for MMO, Rich Kelly stated right here that MMO had not been tested in extended service and therefore, I wouldn’t run it beyond 5000 miles.

I wish Marvel would do some extended testing. How about it guys?

Orangedotfever - 20 November 2010 12:50 PM

Pro mechanics like Tom and Ray Magliozzi have long been advocates of running longer OCI’s than 3000 miles even with regular dino oil. Unless you are pulling the wagon in a 100 degree hay field in the midwest in August, you don’t need to change that often. 5000 miles is plenty early and modern synthetics last much longer. My problem with UOA’s in my car is that by the time I spend the money on one, I can spend the same money on an oil change with a good extended service synthetic oil. As for MMO, Rich Kelly stated right here that MMO had not been tested in extended service and therefore, I wouldn’t run it beyond 5000 miles.

I wish Marvel would do some extended testing. How about it guys?

It is what we are baselining and getting ready to do friend! In multiple vehicles across a wide variety of demographics.
Do the solvents burn off? What is left and the effects?
TBN effects?
Effects on various metals? Long term?

We have the VOA of MMO. We have the VOA of the motor oils that will be used. We have a significant UOA database on the vehicles being used.
Is there a sweet spot for maximum realized benefits? 100 miles/3K/5K/7.5K ?

We see 20K testing with before and after specifics (with pics of course of various parts).

I wanted to baseline “perceptions” also...thus this query in this fine forum.

I think most of the people that say to add MMO to the last XXX miles of the oil change are just paranoid......some will say the MMO will “thin out” the oil, and shouldn’t be driven long term on the oil.....

My theory, MMO works with it’s gentle solvent, to clean up the internals.  Once it cleans up the “tough stuff” - it then gets suspended in the oil pan, for drainage when you’re ready to drain the oil.

If you’ve looked at the MSDS sheets for some of the “flush” products, MMO is a lot gentler than those say, the GUNK product, or Risoline that are added pre-drain, ran in IDLE only, and then drained 5 minutes later....

MMO has lubriciity to it, where I’m guessing these various motor flushes do not, they are simply straight solvent.

I think there’s a reason why Berryman Products removed their “crankcase usage” off their cans of B-12 CHEMTOOL.......likely the product was too harsh on seals, due to the high solvent count within the can.

Sure, I wouldn’t personally go 6k with MMO in the crankcase, but 3k?  4k?  No Problem I’d think......by the 4k especially, you’re likely looking at adding “top off oil” anyways to the mix, so it’s not like you have straight MMO in the case.....

Though will say, last OCI with MMO, the lube mechanic that changed my oil was “playing with” the remaining oil in my filter and he said it was very light, it was definitely dirty.......I’ll be sending it in shortly for an oil analysis to see if the MMO dragged the weight down though, or if it’s fuel, water, or coolant possibly in the oil; which I hope not....but it’s all about preventative research

The dipstick didn’t “smell” like gas or coolant, but it may just be minute....

Thank you for your input friend.^^
Let me set the table of what we have done so far as it relates to viscosity and MMO in the engine oil.

We took a 2008 Silverado 5.3L V8. Daily driver. Significant UOA data on this truck. 70,000 miles on the engine, 40% highway 60% bouncing on dirt roads and in town.
I can tell you we had a 16% reduction in viscosity @100c after 100miles in a 6 quart sump (One quart MMO in 5 quarts oil.) . A 10% reduction in viscosity after 3K OCI.
The above numbers are compared to the exact same oil with no MMO in the exact same truck. So of course we saw the “dilution” of the oil (speaking from a viscosity perspective) thicken after 3K versus the first 100 miles when using the MMO. In other words we compared the viscosity numbers to no MMO and with MMO to get our %.
This took place this past summer over a 6 week period. It is not what we expected. My theory is some solvents “burnt off the MMO” but we will get to the bottom of this particular phenomena eventually We also realized a significant decrease in our homemade filter setup measuring “junk/carbon/soot” being rerouted from the crank back through the throttle body.

We have done enough “shade tree” testing in many verticals on MMO in the sump and have seen some rather surprising benefits we never expected. So we decided to take the plunge (like I did with the TCW3) and do some real world data gathering using our volunteers from the TCW3 testing as we have significant data on all these cars/trucks. Also these volunteers are anal about accuracy and timely reporting so why not?

I am soliciting any and all input or data gathering thoughts/comments any of you have.

And allow me to be a tad preemptive on something I know will be posted. To the first guy that post “If it worked the auto manufacturers would use it….” I would submit Cherry Wood makes a better dashboard than plastic and they don’t use Cherry Wood now do they? 
Thank you again in advance for your thoughts/experience with MMO in the oil.

My family has been using MMO for decades, it works in the oil and the gas.  For those people afraid to use MMO for the full OCI my dad would tell them to add a pint for the last 1000 or so miles of the OCI.  Typically they’d notice a difference, and want to learn more about it.  The next suggestion he’d make was to add it during the winter months when its cold and the oil is typically ‘thick’.  MMO aids in making the engine crank over easier, and eliminates engine noises caused by the colder weather.  Another plus is the cleaning.  Usually at that point they are SOLD ON IT!  The product stood the test of time and has a loyal following.  There are some MMO haters too, typically they never tried it, people who are smart and care about their cars give it a shot and are ususally hooked.

I see there are many others posting comments similar to my dad!

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bugs~ - 20 November 2010 02:03 PM

I think most of the people that say to add MMO to the last XXX miles of the oil change are just paranoid......

Sure, I wouldn’t personally go 6k with MMO in the crankcase,

OK, so which is it? You say two different things here. I run 10K to 12K OCI’s and am an advocate of putting MMO in with about 3000 left to go since Marvel has said it hasn’t been tested over long OCI’s. By the way, what the heck is a “lube mechanic”? Is that the 17 year old kid working at Jiffy Lube?

This is what has our interst peaked on the real long term effects of using MMO in a long term scenario.
I see I now have been banned at BITOG. Wow....that’s a first!
Have not posted there in 2-3 years and get banned. Got an email saying your account has been banned. I guess for saying it had turned into a kids Mustang forum over there. Nothing like them making my point for me. Sad really.
Oh well.....

A side note and I solicit your thoughts folks.....I mentioned unexpected benefits of MMO in the sump earlier....during our intitial baselining/testing we noticed oi/engine temps dropped when using MMO in the oil. We verified this in multiple vehicles.